To find the podcast on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/34mpG38B8tIxcHAOq8Cxfo
To find the podcast on Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/changing-the-atmosphere/id1587899359
Enjoy the Doodle Illustration of the conversation!
Transcript:
Katya 0:00
Hello, My name is Katya Veleva and this is changing the atmosphere, a podcast about changemakers and how they did it.
As always, to look at the illustration that comes with this episode head to the blush cloud website or follow the link in the description.
Today I have the absolute joy of speaking to Kirtsti Wells.
Kirsti is a passionate ambassador for skills and innovation within UK Construction. With a specialism for business development in training and education, she plays an essential role in demystifying industry perceptions, for our next generation of architects, engineers and digital designers.
Kirsti also has a passion for celebrating and promoting the ‘super powers’ of neurodiverse individuals, providing a personal account of, not only the challenges they face but also the amazing attributes they can bring to our developing digital world!
She has also been shortlisted for UK Construction week role model of the year two years in a row and has been named one of 40 digital women to watch in 2021.
I have know Kirtsti for a few years now, and she has helped me personally to expand my understanding of neurodiversity, for which I will always be truly grateful
I won’t give away much of the conversation, but I will draw your attention to the times Kirsti causally notes things have been “challenging”. Apart from being a beautifully sensitive and kind person, she is also incredibly strong, and I call you to pause for a moment and imagine what would have been behind those “challenging” moments.
Enjoy the conversation
Hi, Kirsti, it's so great to have you. Thank you so much for being here.
Kirsti 0:05
Hi, Katya. And thank you for having me. Really excited.
Katya 0:10
Awesome. Now I've been talking you up for a little bit. And before we go into your brilliant work that you've been doing to bring awareness for neurodiversity in the business world, I like to ask all my guests this one question, just to bring us down towards the level but just to level because you have done some really amazing work. But I want to remind everyone that that's possible for any person, even if, for example, like me, I spent several years of my life just really having one single hair as a line as eyebrows. I destroy them in dieting, and ask my guests, “Was that terribly embarrassing trend that you ever participated in? Oh, yeah. Can you think oh, that was crazy.”
Kirsti 0:57
Definitely. I think there's probably quite a few, but probably some that I probably can't repeat right on here. But I think the one the one thing that sticks out is I think it was about 18 or 19, I'd gone to a friend's 18th birthday party, family friends were there, there's got to have been about 100 150 people, I made the decision to have my hair cut before it before the party. The day I was going to the party, is that right? We're gonna have a new hairstyle, I'd got long, curly hair down to the bottom of my shoulders and thought pants would change. Let's go for it. And I had had it all caught up to sort of run my jawline and had it permed. And you can imagine that I actually ended up looking like one of those Lego characters. And it was awful. I remember taking it off. I literally moved my head and it was exactly the same shape. There was no movement at all with it. And I walked in and I remember my four friends, my four best friends standing there looking at me going Hi. What do you think? And they all kind of looked a little bit stunned. At that point, I know, coast, you've made a really big mistake here right now. And I look back at the pictures and I'm like, What did I do? But yeah, that's that, that's a little bit of a story with my friends. Now when it goes on 26 years later that it was probably the worst haircut I've ever had.
Katya 2:26
Kirsty Some people say perms are classics. So that's an angle free.
Kirsti 2:31
They all went out when you've got sort of longer hair, but I went all in and took it all off and went for the perm at the same time. So yeah, it didn't quite go down. I feel like you know, the perm should have stayed for my longer hair not for you know, the short Bob Lego look.
Katya 2:50
Lego look. Now, but that's the beauty of it. Even though you had a ridiculous haircut, you're still doing some amazing work right now. You are pushing for diversity within the construction industry. And you're speaking so much about neurodiversity, which is a significant obstacle for so many people in the way that it's not accommodated in various workplaces. And that's absolutely brilliant. I was wondering, could you tell us a little bit more about what your life looked like before you stepped into that space and started to speak up?
Kirsti 3:26
I think probably starting with the fact that it was quite a confusing space, I look back now. And things have changed a lot over a number of years. But when I first when I was in that space, and I suppose before I knew I was neurodiverse it was quite a cloudy place. I knew I was capable like I'd got through a lot with them. I was a mother at quite a young age. So you had to test and my life was quite difficult up and down for quite some time. But I never knew that I was slightly different. I never quite knew what it was, but I knew my brain probably didn't work as well. And I choose that quite out, you know, works very well. But I think you know, there was a lot of doubt in my mind, a lot of my friends were surpassing me and certain things, you know, where you take maths, for instance, you know, I was never great at math. So there was always a bit of a struggle, but you kind of just carried on but so my work my world was quite a battle, I would say, but it's what I was used to.
Katya 4:26
So within your work life, for example, what was telling you that something was off, what were the signs that things were cloudy and not quite working for you?
Kirsti 4:36
I think the main aspect was pressure. So sometimes on a normal day, you know, if there wasn't any pressure and I was having a great day I could feel like I could do anything quite capable and I worked in an insurance world for quite a big part of my working life and thought I was, you know, fantastic. I knew my job pretty much inside and out. But when I was under pressure, whether that be pressure from work or pressure from home life impacted me quite dramatically in terms of my thought process. So I found it quite difficult to concentrate. So the more pressure I was under, the more I had to try harder, but the harder I tried, the worse it got. So I find that that was quite challenging. I had lots of questions that I'd have to ask myself. Is it okay, I'm trying my hardest, but why am I still getting things wrong? I'm slowing down and doing everything that you'd think that you know, you would do but it wasn't making an impact, it was actually making things worse. And then what changed? I think the biggest changed for me was actually came to fruition that, you know, I started looking and doing a little bit of research myself in terms of my mindset, and I couldn't quite put my finger on the fact that, you know, I'm this capable person, you know, I've bought my daughter up, I've had a successful career in insurance, but there's something that really isn't right. And, you know, it was a point where I was actually going to lose my job, because of the issues that I was having. I didn't want obviously didn't want to do that. I got a daughter at home that had to support and make sure that I got money, let me know as a single parent. So kind of thought I'm going to dig a bit deeper. Is there an underlying issue? Is there something in me, you know, that I have got issues that I need to kind of look into so I, Google became my friend. And I did a little bit of research and it started to pinpoint a few things that maybe homed in on on my personality, some of the things that you know, I'd experienced into that kind of neurodiverse world, which, again, I didn't know anything about I genuinely had no idea. I knew that people's brains worked in different ways, but I didn't know a lot about it. And I started to kind of hone in on certain traits that I'd got when I looked at dyslexia and dyspraxia and calcular somebody that worked in the insurance industry for quite some time that you had difficulty with numbers. So when I started looking at this kind of setup, it offered a few alarm bells for me that I probably needed to dig a little bit deeper, because I'm somebody that won't be beaten. I think that's probably something in my life, that the challenges have been thrown at me so that I won't be beaten. And you know, I want to overcome it. And I will find out which way to join to overcome that. So yeah, when I started digging deeper, I found that these traits sort of highlighted, and I brought them to the attention of my management team, which was quite a different experience for me, because effectively, I was actually going to them and saying that this might be something wrong with me. And that's what I thought, you know, there's something wrong with me. At that point, they didn't really know what to do. And now I work for quite a global organisation. At that point, it was fine. You know, it's my management, they were very supportive. But it was very much a little bit of a kind of a question mark above their head. Okay, what do I do with this person that's coming to me and telling me that they might have underlying issues? And what are they? And how do we go about that? And that's when things changed. I was actually looking to my support network, then to actually give me answers and say, Okay, well, you know, this is what we're going to do. And this is how we're going to help you, and we're going to put you in this direction. And through no fault of their own. It was only really an education side of things that they didn't know what to do with me. So they actually came to me actually to go to them and say, right, I think I need some testing, I need to have somebody in and talk to me and find out if there are any internal issues, and it was me actually educating my employer, which, again, was quite challenging. But again, you know, they listened to me, and they actually got somebody in to test me overarching, extremely dyslexic dyspraxic, somebody that really is challenging with lupus. So you know, at that point, I was like, okay, I've had to go to my management team, educate them on it, and also find that I'm in a job role that really probably doesn't suit me. And really, my career probably needs to go in a different way.
Katya 9:13
So this is a brand story already. You lived in a bit of a fog and a little bit of a cloudy place where you didn't know why or knew what to do. You were supposed to do it, but things weren't working out regardless of the effort you put in. And then you found out you found the answer for yourself, you sought help, you made the effort to educate everyone around you to support you, you found some natural, comfortable answers maybe. But this could have easily finished there. You know, you've sorted yourself out, you know what your diagnosis is, you have figured out what support you're going to need and you could have just continued on your professional path, just as it is with the support you had. But you didn't. You made the next step. So what was the thing that kept you realizing that there was a specific moment where you knew Okay, I need to do more about this?
Kirsti 10:05
I think yes, I think after that, and I think the diagnosis was quite a big thing for me. And understanding that diagnosis, when you sit in a room and process that you go through, you know, when you actually tested for dyslexia, mine was back to our process, lots of different things that had to do numerical belling even dying to sort of shape movements, and you know how my brain works. And it was quite a stressful experience. If I'm on if you don't get me wrong, she was brilliant. She was very supportive and explained everything teammates. But when you're sitting in, in an isolated room effectively going through a process to say, Okay, this is actually going to direct which way your life goes. This is the way you wish somebody actually could tell you that your brain is different to someone else when we went through that process. And she said yes, and gave me the diagnosis. As you can imagine, it was quite an emotional experience. I was, you know, in my early 30s, early, mid to late 30s. And was it quite late to be diagnosed with neurodiversity?
Katya 11:09
There is quite a bit of data around women with neurodiversity and on the spectrum and that and that being diagnosed for quite a while, and you're saying it was an emotional experience? What was the emotion of Kirsti?
Kirsti 11:20
I was very overwhelmed. I was also relieved, I would say that is a huge relief, because God went for the first sort of 30 to 35 years of my life coping with things and making coping mechanisms for certain things. I always knew I wasn't great at spelling, you know, so the computer would say, right, okayed and just spellcheck, you know, I'd always use the computer for adding things up. But I also knew I was quite talented in terms of my English, you know, somebody that can't spell I can actually I like to think I can articulate on paper quite well. But oh, I never really read a book ever. And even to this day, I've never read a book and would love to so obviously, I'll go into that a little bit more, you know, my adaption to that the overwhelming kind of relief, I would say was the biggest failing, I probably cried to a point where I was all snotty and cruel. You know, it was like, it wasn't a pleasant Look, if I'm honest. When I look back on it, now, it was kind of that was a real catalyst to turn things because I knew over all those years and those different adaptation techniques that I'd taken, you know, my friends always call me, dp Dora, because I'd always dropped things or I'd like spaced out a little bit. And it was a little bit of a joke. It was just always a bit of a fun thing. But, uh, sitting there in that room now, I think, you know, I'm not actually Dippy, I'm dyslexic. And that was a real catalyst to kind of go, Okay, well, how do we work this? What's this gonna look like? And how do I cope with this moving forward?
Katya 12:50
This is a catalyst to figure out what you're gonna do for yourself. But then you've stepped in on a stage you stepped in, in the industry to voice what's actually going on for people like you and yourself in business and in their professional development. What was the catalyst that pushed you to make that next step?
Kirsti 13:11
Probably the move from my previous job to where I am now, I decided at that point that I needed to take some time out and decide where I would be valued, where, you know, my personality would say, my skills and techniques, obviously weren't really geared towards insurance and numerical career. So, you know, took a little bit of time out a little bit of soul searching, I would say, I'm not afraid to say that, you know, I had a little bit assistance, you know, and talk to people and stuff, because it had a real impact on my own personal and mental health. It was quite a challenging time, but I knew I wanted to help people. Because I've been through that experience. I knew that my love and also having my daughter, it's such an art, you know, 17 I had my daughter. So, you know, lots of things that I've experienced that people in my choice, then are still going through. So it's like, Okay, how can I help this in the long term? I knew that that was overarching what I wanted to do. But I saw a job as a development officer working with apprentices basically. And so, okay, I've got no experience with this. I just know I like people. And I like to talk to people. And, you know, I like to talk to young people. And it was quite a nerve wracking thing, because I've got no experience. I don't really know I'm going into this completely new sector of construction engineering, I know nothing about, but what's the harm in giving it a go? Let's just say, you know, they'll either like me, or they won't. I applied, I got an interview, and they bought into me. And that's the biggest thing that I would say, it wasn't about where I've been that I'm dyslexic that I'm dyslexic. It was Who am I? They bought into me and my personality and so my capabilities of the person that I who I am,
Katya 14:57
so you did bring up the fact that you have this like And dyspraxia this interview immediately after.
Kirsti 15:03
Yeah, it was, it was something that was quite important to me. I think for me at that point I'd not have a lot to lose. It was people that I'd hoped that people were binding to me. And everything that made up me dyslexia and dyspraxia was obviously quite new to me, but it was any part of me, the reaction I got from the team that interviewed me was really positive, really positive, it was very much, let's be honest, we don't understand too much about it. But from the way you've come across from who you are, we can teach you everything else. We continue to have the stuff about the industry, we can put you in that, but you actually, you can't teach attitude, you can't teach personality. And that's what they bought into. And that key point in my life, that was really important to me.
Katya 15:51
That's brilliant. That's brilliant. And it's really brave. And I'm sure it didn't feel easy to approach the topic. At the very first time you're meeting people you hope to work with for sure. So you started this new position, but then you moved on to actually speaking up and working with the apprenticeships network to talk more about neurodiversity, and what businesses could do to accommodate people with various new diversities. How did that happen? What was the notion
Kirsti 16:23
That was a little bit of a journey in itself as well at that point. So the job that I took on was very much a development role talking to organisations about apprenticeships and digital, the more and more I experienced my job and got out and spoke to people. The more and more I realised that there are a lot more people out there that would like me, how did that feel? Kirsty? I say, so several different feelings that may, for me, at that point, it was very much okay, I'm not on my own. So selfies, say selfishly, but for me, it gave me confidence that it's not just me. But also it made me realise that other people will need that support. I'm not the only one that's, you know, saying suffering or experiencing this in my life. So there's a lot of other people that are going through the same process of me, and they might not have people that would have been able to give them the opportunities, they might not have the confidence to actually go to their team leader and go, there's something wrong for me at that point, is that, okay, I've done this, how can I help other people in that position? Because I know I was and genuinely I was in quite a dark place at one point because, you know, mentally that has a huge effect on you thinking, Okay, I'm different. This is a lot of people that will be going through that, but how can I help them? How can I take a little bit of the edge off, maybe hope to educate mentors and educate professionals within organisations or friends family, that may, basically going to support those people through and working with young people, young people, if you go to an interview, they're not going to say they're dyslexic, you know, if they've got a diagnosis, they're not going to be open and honest, they're going to be absolutely petrified because they want this job. And they don't want anything to actually, you know, to ruin that. So I wanted to make sure that it's okay to say that it's okay to say that you're dyslexic because there's so many overarching positives of being neurodiverse.
Katya 18:15
So what was the first opportunity you had to speak up about this?
Kirsti 18:19
I'm always quite open in terms of my neurodiversity. So when I'm talking to people, or when I'm on a zoom call, or I'm meeting a client, if it comes up, or we talk about the digital space, there's a lot of people that are neurodiverse because of the type of work that we do. So I'm always very open about it. I joined the apprenticeship Ambassador network, locally to me in the marches in Shropshire. And I find that those conversations around neurodiversity, you have to excuse me, I can't remember actually where it came from, or why it came up. I was again, I was open and honest and said, I'm not neuro diverse. And I speak quite passionately about it. I could talk the hind legs off a donkey when we get onto this subject, because it's something that I live and breathe every day. So we got into a conversation and the project manager after the call actually said, “Here, can I have five minutes with you?” So we took that away and grabbed another coffee? He says, Would you be open and honest about it? Yeah, we'd be open to talking about it. And I kind of spoke about it in, you know, bits and pieces when I've been talking about but the thought of actually sitting in front of people and going okay, this is my story. This is who I am. And talking to people about it was kind of a mixture of emotions that yes, I want to educate people, but oh my goodness, I've got to sit in front of people in zoom or in front of people and talk about that, you know, it was quite a nerve wracking experience. But it was the first opportunity that I kind of got to actually reach out to a lot of people and go, Okay, well, if it meant reach into one person, whether it be one HR manager, anybody to kind of recognise that they've got somebody that could potentially be and go through the story that I've had, then it's worth it?
Katya 20:01
Absolutely. It really, really is. And that's brilliant to get an opportunity like that. But it's also absolutely understandable that you were petrified there for a minute because it could be quite intimidating. And, of course, you're sharing your own experience. But part of that is representation. And there's responsibility embedded in that. So what was your first step in the preparation to do this?
Kirsti 20:23
So I could have gone down different roads. Now, I speak from experience. I don't have any qualifications. In any of this, I just talk about where I've been, the knowledge I've got were quite emotional beings, I would say people that are neurodiverse. So we feel things a lot more than others do. So when I'm talking to people, how can I engage them? If I did a presentation in terms of, you know, lots of facts and figures and stuff? One, I couldn't do it. I'd be there all day all day trying to put it together, and probably lose people. So how can I and again, when I'm talking, again, I get very nervous. So you know, I stutter, and how can I keep them engaged. The one big thing for me that I knew about and I was confident about is my own story. I can talk about that, because I've lived it, I decided the best way to get it across to people was actually to tell my story from start to finish how it may be fit, but also in colour. So I work in colour I see in colour I see in pictures, instead of talking from a, you know, huge presentation, and whatever, because it just wouldn't work for me. And it probably wouldn't work for my audience. If I'm trying to reach out to neurodiverse people, they're not going to look at a load of sentences they want to see in pictures. So I decided to do something a little bit different. And put together a bit of a presentation in terms of pictures, a bit comical a bit about my background, you know, and tell me my full story really, which was again, I'm laying out a bear. This is me.
Katya 22:00
Yeah. And that's, that's extremely brave. But it's also quite genius in the way that you addressed it. You were asked to speak about this. And then you turn to yourself and ask what would work, what works for me and how I can do this in a way that's engaging. And then what did you do next?
Kirsti 22:19
I put it together, and as normal, critiqued it, within an inch of its life, decided our centre over to the project manager who had approached me to, and he couldn't wait to get people involved and put it out to the network, and get people engaged. As you can imagine, you put some of these and we all get invited to so many different things on a daily basis, and we choose which ones that we want to go to. And, you know, I think we're especially standing here at the moment, we're probably all zoomed in team doubt. And is that a case of you know, by putting this up, put a lot of work into it? What if I only have one person turn up and all these things go through your mind, I suppose for me at that point is that if that one person listens, then I've done my job. That's what I wanted to do. Anyway, he put it out to the network and on the first call, I had 35 people turn up so that was like, okay, the baptism of fire. I'm telling my story to these people that are across the couldn't show. It kind of showed how important this subject is. It probably showed how important I was at that point. And I really took real comfort in that I'm there and people want to listen to me. So yeah, that gate kind of came from there. And then it spiralled. What happened next? I ended up doing across the network, we have different regions. So today I've done four, I think different of the regions, I've had, on average between 25 and 40 people on each of the calls. I've had some amazing feedback, some that have actually reduced me to tears, I'll be completely honest, from people from apprentices themselves that have joined the call to large CEOs of huge organisations just basically saying how much they have enjoyed the talk have enjoyed listening to me, the approach and the biggest overarching thing that they can take things away. And of the presentation that I've done previously, I've put a couple of little pointers to people listening, just saying, you know, you look out for these certain traits, certain things will help these people if you notice, and it's actually highlighted it to people and you know, I've had had messages saying okay, well, we've got somebody in our organisation that I think tick some of these boxes, we're taking them away and we're going to do something which for me is exactly what I set out to do. That's wonderful.
Katya 24:42
Now throughout this process, what has been the hardest thing to do?
Kirsti 24:46
Probably two things. Probably laying myself bare kind of going okay to the world. This is me. I think if anybody met me five or six years ago, the person I am now to the person I Then are completely different. And I mean, to a point where I would sit in a corner, and I wouldn't say a great deal, I was very quiet, very self conscious, I wouldn't speak up in a conversation, completely different person. The biggest challenge for me was actually going from that to somebody now, who doesn't stop talking and you know, is quite, you know, what's in it every opportunity in a course. So, you know, that was that it was quite challenging, but worth it. I think also, being in front of people, again, is sort of off the back of that. There's been occasions over the last few years, I've had to stand up in front of people to talk about the work that we do, not just the dyslexia side of things, but obviously about my day job. doing that, again, was very challenging, because somebody that's no idea versus very self critical. Do I look okay, am I speaking Okay, am I, you know, what do they think of me, and you can have all those things that go through your head before actually standing up in front, and it can get you to a point where you actually can't physically speak, to overcome that, that's, I would say, has been one of the biggest challenges that I've had to had to overcome,
Katya 26:12
or virtual high. That's really amazing. And that's why that's such a huge thing that people often struggle with, and being able to make that step. And you've mentioned stuttering before when, when we've spoken. And I've known you for a couple years now, several years. And I haven't ever witnessed that you've always seemed so effortless to me whenever you've spoken in front of people. And that's just brilliant. I would have never guessed that that was the case before. So on the way now, on this path that you've taken, what else do you want to achieve?
Kirsti 26:50
There's lots of things that I live my life very much in, say, in the moment, I think, you know, each day is different. I'm quite a positive person. And I like to bring that positivity to other people. And it's lovely, but a lot of my friends will come to me and talk to me, I'm quite open about it as you can see, quite expect my experiences. I like to go out, I like to be the life and soul of the party. And that I want to continue with in terms of where I want to take this, I think making a difference to more people talking to those internal people or organisations to kind of go, Okay, this is what I experienced. So, you know, and educate them a little bit. There's lots of tick boxes that people go through. What is an educator? What is neurodiversity? I don't have all the answers. I don't think any of us have all the answers to it. But to talk to people, and especially with apprentices, especially with young people, gives them a little bit of belief that they're not, you know, they are different. And I actually, you know, I'm actually going through something at the moment, I'm having some dyslexia mentoring, this is all through access to work, it's sort of two hours every week, and it's quite stressful, because you actually have to dig quite deep in terms of you know, where I've been what I'm doing, but also understanding what dyslexia is, which I didn't really know about until a few weeks ago, I knew a lot about it, I knew a lot about my experiences, but I didn't know what it meant. What does the word dyslexia mean? You know, and all these different things that I want to be able to kind of talk to others about and educate them about it, so that they can actually recognise that they've got young people, you know, older people within their organisation that might need that additional help. My dad is 65 due to retire. And they say that dyslexia is, is hereditary 100%, my dad is dyslexic never been diagnosed. But that's where it's come back to the line that it's come down. And we laugh and joke about it.
Katya 28:57
That's brilliant. So you spend quite a bit of time raising awareness with your own story, which is brilliant. And it's such a valuable thing. This is how we learn to make space with these personal stories. And then the next step is going to be moving on to a more kind of factual based educational piece towards organisations. I have no doubt that that's exactly what you're going to do, and you're going to be very successful at it. So again, in the journey so far in the work that you're doing, what was an unexpected surprise, positive surprise?
Kirsti 29:31
The biggest unexpected surprise is how many people fit into my box, I think and when I say a box, it's very much, you know, that box is huge. Lots of different sides to it could even be an octagon, there's so many different sides. But the biggest one I would say is that there's a lot of people that are in the same space as me that have X Very similar things to me. But don't that don't know what to do. And you think that when you're diagnosed with something that everybody knows what it is, everybody knows what hay fever is. Everybody knows what all these are. Nobody, nobody really knows until unless you're educated in what neurodiversity is. And that is probably quite a shocking thing for me that, you know, effectively, we're disabled, I've got a disabled, I could, you know, when I was talking to my mentor, not so long ago, you know, I sit in that category. But if I've got a wheelchair, you can see I'm disabled. If I've got neuroma, I'm neurodiverse, you don't see that. And there's you, we need to, like move that level. We need to make people or educate them that we do need that additional support. But there's a huge butteriness. We are extremely talented individuals, we see things very differently. You know, we have that overarching, you know, I can sit and have a conversation with somebody and I will see something that they don't, and you know, I may not be able to spell the best, I may not be able to count the best. But there's lots and lots of things that I can do that they can't necessarily, so we just need to look at the positives.
Katya 31:17
And so far, who's been the biggest support?
Kirsti 31:20
Oh, I would probably say I've got several people that I would say I've got big support. So you know that the apprenticeship network has been fantastic. So there's a gentleman called Craig Watson, he's, he really spotted sort of how this made me feel really wanting to push out and had a passion for it. My partner so he's extremely supportive and where I've been I've had quite a rough time previously. And he's very supportive in how, you know, where I'm going understands that I may, you know, not put myself across ropes and I'm quite accident prone, you know, I mean, it's a laughing laughing thing in our household that, what am I going to break next? Not too long ago, I went straight through the sky cable, I was cutting edge, and it went through. So I took all the internet down. Yeah, I've, I've smashed a 55 inch screen that didn't go down too Well, almost a bit. But you know, you need that support. Because I know, because you beat yourself up as well when you do things like that. But to be able to kind of go, you know what, it's you. It's okay, these things happen. And that's the be, it's okay. And again, my current employer has been extremely supportive. It's a growth process. So at the moment, I'm actively doing some stuff with access to work with some mentoring. I've got additional software on my computer, you know, they're very supportive around the work that I do. And that, you know, because obviously, it takes me away sometimes from my day job, but they see it as a huge part to, you know, pipe my personality and my role so very supportive.
Katya 32:56
It's brilliant. We do need some cheerleaders every once in a while, and it's hard to do that kind of work in some aspects, but really, expanding the space for people is something available to all of us. So what would your advice be for anyone who's listening who wants to make a change in the world, I
Kirsti 33:14
would probably say, go for it. Then there isn't anything to stop anyone doing anything that's positive. I think when you've got a passion, when you've got something that drives you, that can actually make a difference to someone else. There's always somebody you know, we, we always laugh. And so we've got a doppelganger, you know, I've got somebody out there, that's my dogs are appalling. But they may look like me. But they and they might tick like me in certain respects, but they're not me. So you've kind of got everybody to work together. Just go out. Be yourself. Talk about things that are passionate for you. I always used to sit in what people are looking at me, what are they thinking? What are they thinking about my, you know, the way I'm dressed or the way I'm speaking? You know, what's my accent like? All these different things. We all do the same thing. We all go through and have those same worries every single day. I'm not the only one that gets up in the morning and decides what I want to wear for the day. I'm not the only one that gets up in the morning and goes to No, I don't feel it today. I'd rather not leave the house, I want my coffee and I want to get back onto my COVID we all go through those. We're all the same in a lot of respects. But we're also all very different. And it's okay. I think that's the thing, don't think too much about what other people think, go out there, you know, showcase who you are, and just do what you believe in. And I can't think that there's anything wrong with that.
Katya 34:48
Just be yourself and that is kind of what you did to get that first invitation as well. Because Yeah, you had the nudge from someone else but it came because you were outspoken. About what made you different and what your needs were. Because this is what we are allowed to request for what we need. And I think this is something that we don't always feel like.
Kirsti 35:10
Having that confidence cattier sometimes and to, as you say, speak out, we sometimes get a bit conditioned that we're not allowed to challenge things. And I think if you're challenging something in the right way that you are passionate about, then go for it, and what can be the worst that can happen?
Katya 35:33
There's the key, isn't it? So what would be your advice for challenging things?
Kirsti 35:38
I think, for me, if you're challenging something, and the one big thing I did was research, the one big thing I was I was to look at, and actually be able to kind of go to the people that you know, my peers and go, look, I've looked at this, these are reasons why I've come to this kind of idea in this decision. So I've kind of got that support there. I took some time out, I didn't kind of go in. Okay, this is what I think and because as soon as you do that, the backs go up. And it's like, you know, I'm not, I don't really want to listen, it's approach, I think making sure that you actually do a little bit of thinking, but also believe in you know, think about you got to believe in you got, and then when you can actually put emotions around that I went into that room at that point, because I believed that I in something genuinely to my core, that there is something fundamentally that I need to get looked at. Don't be afraid to actually listen to yourself and actually put it across and challenge things it's getting in the right way. But if you put a case towards, you know, your management team or even family members or anything like that, and you've looked at it then all they can do is listen. And the biggest thing I think from people who are on the receiving end of that is Listen, don't just jump at it, listen to them. Because I don't think sometimes we listen enough.
Katya 37:07
That is true. That's absolutely true. And taking that time and space could be very, very key. And that's what you mentioned before as well that you took some time you had some support around coming to grips with the condition and how you're going to be moving forward and then did the research and you're ready in common prepared?
Kirsti 37:27
I would say yes, I would say so, it very much depends on who you're approaching as well, and your relationship with them. And it's a scary place. I think you know, anybody that wants to actually challenge the norm, it's quite a difficult thing to do. But if you take a little bit of time and present a little bit of a case and do it calmly, then people are more likely to listen than if you actually go in and start putting demands on because the listening kind of goes out the way.
Katya 38:02
Christy, thank you so much for all of the work that you're doing. This has been really great. And it's been very, very beneficial for me personally, and I'm sure for anyone, thank you.
Kirsti 38:10
Thank you for taking the time to listen to me. It's been really amazing. Thank you!
Katya
Wow, I don't know about you, but I can’t wait to see where Kirsti goes from here.
The volume of the change she has had to facilitate within her life, to be here today is quite overwhelming. Something that I can’t get out of my head is how this young woman, with a baby in her hands and the snappy nickname of Dippy Dora is now capable of standing up and speaking up about her real passions and helping people with this.
With this podcast, I am hoping to be able to trace some similarities in the process of change-making. And something that I have heard before, and appears in Kirsti’s story is that dialogue - having that other real living person seeing and supporting you before you can get into the process of creating change. There just seems to be a huge power in realising you are not alone, but that’s also a bit of a chicken and egg situation.
It was so fun illustrating this conversation, do have a look at the drawing on blushcloud.co.uk.
Until the next time - Keep changing the atmosphere.
